I know dude. OU really picked a bad time to go on a 2 game losing streak. It seems as though they controlled the second half, after working out the jitters from the previous loss in the first half. White could not throw right, and they should have run more from the start. Oh well. And I am undecided on whether or not I like White coming back...

Bomar's the ticket.

White sucks.

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dogs dressed as superheroes is far better than any USC/LSU game could ever be.

BCS sucks. How can the #2 team in the Big12, be #1?

OK dude, I'll explain it to you...

BCS is determined by both math and human judgement, more weighted on the math because of people like you. So here's the math. LSU and OU both played a total of 13 games, while SC played 12. LSU, OU and SC all have 1 loss, but LSU and OU had more of a probability for a loss because they played more games, just like if you crossed the street one more time than I did you would have a better chance of getting hit by a car. Also, LSU lost to Florida (8-4 ranked 15th) and OU lost to KSU (11-3 ranked 10th), while SC lost to Cal (7-6, ranked >15th). I won't throw up strength of schedule because you have to play your conference and there's nothing you can really do about it, but SC should at least try to a) find a 13th opponent and b) take a loss against a more difficult opponent if they want to pretend they're one of the big boys. Even Cal, the team that beat SC, played 13 games. We all have to live with the whole season, not just the last month.

AND, SC is #1 in the pac10 soley based on their pac10 record, not with a game. If we do this with the big12, OU has a record of 8-1 and Kansas State has a record of 7-2, so I guess by pac10's method, OU is still #1 in the big12.

Split title my ass.

haha cdb, well said. thank you. new post coming soon!

Yep, you're right, computers should always determine who's in the championship game...Oklahoma looked like a fucking joke.

Ok, the AP voters AND the coaches (who I think know a tad more about football that you or I) both thought USC was #1...you think I don't understand how the BCS works?

It's fucked up that if Hawaii had beat Boise St. that USC would have gone to the game, hahaha

Says the BCS commissioner,"If I could just use the two human polls and get rid of the computers ... " Tranghese said Sunday morning at the annual Football Writers Association of America breakfast. "If you think it's fun defending the computers ... " Tranghese said.

He didn't finish either thought. He didn't have to.

"I knew the day that we came up with the computers that this was going to happen," Tranghese said. "Some day, some time, some place, something like this was going to occur."

Me again:

The system is flawed, I'm just sorry you can't see that, everyone else in America has :)

jeremyj, you can go on about trying to prove me wrong. maybe usc should have beaten that little unranked team if they are so amazing. seems usc fans tend to forget losses earlier in the season to shitty teams. ou and lsu lost to better teams, therefore they played in the real championship. simple as that.

hahha i love it!

oh right...that "shitty team" beat your (therefore shittier?) virginia tech team so explain that one to me..(oh right, you said they always collapse late in the season, i won't make you type it again...)

smit, i understand how the system works, thanks for explaining it again though, i'm just saying it's flawed

Wait Kansas St. beat Oklahoma, Ohio St. beat Kansas St., Michigan beat Kansas St., and USC beat Michigan so THEREFORE USC is the rightful champion.

Hey, if the computer spit that out, you'd swear by it wouldn't you?

haha, we got snow today, AWESOME!

OWNED.

jaykay smit. but i still don't understand how anyone or thing could possibly support OU being in that game. there's just no logic to it.

Ok, Let's take all the woulda, coulda and gonna crap and flush it down the crapper with the AP and the Coaches poll and go with NOTHING but computers! Yes, I said computers. Still have polls during the season and leading up to the BCS, except take ALL of the human bias out of it and let the computers look at strength of schedule, game sites, game day weather conditions(?), injury, you name it, just have the same criteria for all schools all year and see what happens. I have never liked the AP or Coaches Polls. Who do you think the folks in each state or conference are going to vote for? Looks like my beloved VT Hokie Chokies, but that is exactly what I am talking about. They (VT) should never have been ranked any higher than 20th all season with the schedule that they played. Anyway, let's start a movement to get rid of the human element and go with ONLY computers! Try it and tell me if it's any worse than what we have now. smit's dad

haha, good stuff. the reason i support the computers is that are not subjective to human opinions, ones that forget about losses to weaker teams and weaker schedules. seriously, it all boils down to that little cali game. go ahead and say how they beat tech, that means nothing to this argument. lsu and ou deserved to be in the championship, and one had to lose. it just so happens that ou is the team that lost. there's a reason why ou had the lowest bcs score in the history of the bcs, and why coaches and critics were hailing this team as the best team in college football in years, before they fell to kansas state. you seem to forget that too along with your loss to unranked cali.

It's not my loss, I don't go to USC.

The computers are fucked, can't you guys see that! Jeff Sagarin, the guy who makes one of the polls said himself they need to be fixed.

He decided to factor in home and away games and see how that would change the poll. Turns out out of the biggest conferences, Pac 10 plays THE LEAST home games. If you factor those in as well, then the Pac 10 has a stronger SOS and USC would have gone to the Sugar Bowl. Would you agree that more home games (otherwise known as home field advantage) makes your schedule a bit easier, so doesn't that change your strength of schedule! Can't you see the damn thing is flawed! (well what if we do this, that makes sense..oh look there's a different outcome) I mean, a guy who created a poll thinks it's flawed and something needs to be done.

Let's go only with computers? How come every single year since the BCS started we've had controversy with the computer polls. Every single year every single newspaper columnist bashes on the illogical things these computers spit out.

"I have never liked the AP or Coaches Polls."

HAHAHHAHA Yeah I don't like paying taxes, but things do have to get done. You're right, we should make nothing subjective to humans and let computers control the world...wait I think I saw a movie like this, I swear it didn't turn out good!

"and why coaches and critics were hailing this team as the best team in college football in years, before they fell to kansas state. you seem to forget that too along with your loss to unranked cali."

You just proved my point buddy. That Oklahoma DID NOT belong in that Championship game based on what I saw. Now you see the fallacy of these polls played out on the field. They convinced everyone by playing in a weak Big 12 conference how good they were (myself included) and were exposed for frauds. But you won't have anything to do with it.

"As it stood, LSU beat the only team in the college football "final four" not to win its conference. And things look like they're getting worse, not better for Oklahoma. It lost back-to-back games for the first time since 1999. Oklahoma's first touchdown came after the offense had gone 17 straight drives and 90 plays without seeing the end zone."

We're #1?

The rest of the country can see that something has to be done. Why can't you guys? All I'm saying is the system is flawed, you can tweak the polls to have whoever you want to win come out as #1..do you still stand by that system?

hahaha

"Anyway, let's start a movement to get rid of the human element and go with ONLY computers! Try it and tell me if it's any worse than what we have now."

Oh, and sorry to ruin your fantasy world, smit's dad, but the computer polls are actually created by human minds so there IS room for error as creators have admitted. This isn't like Charlie and Chocolate Factory when the computer can think for itself...

Speaking of SOS, Sagarin - who is the only guy to continue to update even during the bowls - finalized USC's SOS much higher than both Okla and LSU. It turns out that USC bowl bound opponents went 5-1 while Oklahoma's almost all tanked. I love it when people back east talk shit about the PAC 10, that is until they meet up with one of us and get their ass handed to them (See Michigan - TWICE)

I also love it how everyone wants to discount the fact that USC's loss was on the ROAD in triple OT by a measly FG. LSU lost at HOME, in regulation, by two scores.

Anyone here calculate the record of teams west of the Rockys vs teams east of the Rockys during bowl season? The west was 8-1.

BCS SOS does not factor in Home and away games in any computer. Yet the human polls do. Tell me again why the computers are better?

Also, a win over say Purdue this season counts exactly the same as a win over Troy State. Oh gee, those teams are equal.

haha, you saying that lsu's loss to FLORIDA is worse than usc's loss to CALI. wow, you guys will try anything to build up usc and the pac-10's case.

"ou is the only team not to win its conference"... usc didn't even play a conference final, their last game against oregon state just happened to be the same weekend as the ou and ksu title game. this loss to a quality team and usc's win over an average team should not boost usc sky high in human opinion. it just shows that ou played a stellar season, still loses the conference final, and still has a better bcs ranking. you don't agree with it, i do. i don't see how usc should be able to jump over ou when they each had one loss, ou's to a better team.

you can look back at the outcome of the bcs championship and say "hey, told you all along that usc should have played in that game instead."... true that usc was impressive in it's win over michigan and true that ou and mr. heisman himself choked big time for the second straight game, but you must forget the outcome of the game, and look at the season that had built up to it's right to be there. unfortunately, a championship is not about who is "hot right now", but who demolished opponents all season long. you can go along with whatever sports writers you want, but dare i say it, i think they're wrong, too. i can go around looking for writers in favor of the bcs and ou's berth in the championship and quote them here to appear all high and mighty, but i won't.

go ahead and try to justify that i should forget about usc's loss to california. aint gonna happen, buddddddy.

you think i'm wrong, and i think you're wrong. and i don't see either one of us budging.

there will always be controversy with the bcs as well as human polls. if we just had the human polls, who decides who plays in the championship? biased humans who forget about the entire season's performance. only way to really settle this is to start up a playoff system, somethign that will take a whole lot of effort, money, and power to implement.

I love how you make a case that we should pity teams that played in a conference game. Guess what its only played to helped their boost its sos to get into a better game. I'm sorry did you say that USC should've played a pac 10 title game? We both know what the outcome of that game might have been, don't we? There was no way LSU gets into the sugar bowl without playing georgia in the SEC title game. Offend me, please!

scvegas - are you trying to say that lsu doesn't deserve to be in the championship? they beat georgia TWICE.

I believe that LSU is a good team. But, yes I'm saying that they shouldn't not have been in the sugar bowl more that USC should have. I was moreso stating that a conference championship game would have heavily favored USC to be in the sugar. I know I'm biased as a trojan fan. But, come on now! You are telling me a Pac 10 champ who beat the Big 10 champ (who was clearing playing the best football at the end of season not named USC) is not as entitled to the trophy over a SEC champ who beat a BIG 12 (who isn't even the conf champ)???

Looking at Georgia's schedule..perhaps they were a little overrated :D

"biased humans who forget about the entire season's performance."

you're right smit, humans don't have that capability. I guess since USC was #1 in both Coaches and AP Poll before the Sugar Bowl (and would have been after if not for their contract) that we can just assume every single one of those guys did not look at the whole season. Every single one. Nice logic.

Georgia overrated? Look at USC's schedule. Funny little man you are.

dammit smit, stop with the usc schedule thing. the pac-ten went 4-2 in bowl games, best of any conference!!!!ASDADA!!!

HAHAHA

Smit and I are right because we hold all teams to the same standard, just as a computer would. Each team had 1 loss. SC's loss was to the weakest team of the 3, SC didn't play as many games, and SC wasn't forced to play a championship game and took the pac10 title by it's pac10 record. If you want to throw in home/away point spread whatever, let me remind you that away games in the pac10 are not as difficult because a)pac10 sucks and b)fans aren't allowed to use thundersticks??? That's right SC's coach decided that home field advantage is too hard to overcome when the fans are too loud and had thundersticks banned, while his home stadium is the second largest in the conference.

AHAHAHAHAHA you guys are funny because you can only remember what happened in the last week and totally forgot the triple overtime fieldgoal loss to the measly little golden bears. This makes comment #23 WEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeee

oops I meant 26

Yeah, I looked at Georgia's, what am I looking at in particular?

USCs?? HAHA, look at LSU's, they played two teams who made ESPNs Bottom 10 of the Year.

2-10 Mississippi St.

1-11 Louisiana Monroe

as well as:

5-7 Louisiana Tech (yes, they play in the WAC)

Western Illinois who playes in the Mid Continent Conference (??)

AND

the lowly Arizona Wildcats who went 2-10 and only beat UTEP and my poor Huskies.

and to quote OC4SC:

"Speaking of SOS, Sagarin - who is the only guy to continue to update even during the bowls - finalized USC's SOS much higher than both Okla and LSU. It turns out that USC bowl bound opponents went 5-1 while Oklahoma's almost all tanked."

I may be funny, but I'm not little.

Touche.

Pac 10 bowl teams had the second best winning percentage for conferences that played more than two games.

hahahahha

how did your conference do in bowl games CDB

How can I forget Oklahoma's two pitiful losses in the last month? hahaha

A few more things I just read:

not only did Oklahoma lost to Kansas St. 35-7, Kansas St. drove to the 5 before taking a knee...how sad.

And for the conference levels, someone pointed out that in the last 7 head to head matchups between the SEC and Pac 10, the Pac 10 is 6-1

Can you guys please bring some facts to the table.

Well, seeming as how I'm up at WSU, I'd say it had the second best winning percentage for conferences that played more than two games. We seem to be talking bowl talk though. Huh, do the bowl games retroactively decide who's gonna play in the bowls and clear teams of their horrible regular season schedules? Are SC fans gonna make the first ever time loop as seen in Star Trek episodes where we get stuck playing bowl games to see who plays in the bowl games?

Okay smit, here are some points to consider.

First, the fact that USC did not play a conference championship is irrelevant; the Pac-10, ACC, and Big East have a different method of determining conference champion, and that is by NCAA RULE, it isn't a matter of choice. Therefore, their conference championship is as legitimate, by rule, than that of LSU. OU did not win their conference championship, period. And according to their coach, no team that does not win their conference does not belong in the title game. Bob Stoops said that last year, and although he was referring to Nebraska, it came back to bite him.

Secondly, the SOS formula that was used to compute OU's SOS was found to be inherently biased, due to the preponderance of home games for Big XII and SEC teams when compared to the Pac-10 in particular. This preponderance extends to all of OU's Big XII opponents, whose SOS is boosted themselves, while they pass on the benefit of THEIR SOS to each Big XII team that they play. Also, a home win is not weighted any differently than a road win, and a road loss is not weighted any differently than a home loss.

Would you at least agree that there is a difference between winning and losing at home and on the road? That a team losing to a team at home should be viewed differently than if it lost on the road? Also, what about the idea of beating a team like La. Tech, vs. Oregon State? Shouldn't those two victories weighed differently?

Finally, if you are going to argue that the Pac-10 is a "weak" conference, then you will have to base it on something other than their win/loss record to OOC opponents during the regular season. Why? Because when we offer up the evidence that the "weak" Pac-10 performed better than the Big XII during bowl season, you dismiss it and say that it's not a valid comparison. Why? These are head to head matchups with OOC opponents, and if you are going to compare regular season records, then we can compare bowl records, and they are just as valid.

And where do you think Cal would be ranked now, AFTER the bowl game? And where do you think Florida would be ranked? And who had the tougher schedule this year, Cal or Florida? I don't know, but my guess would be that they are at least comparable, if not a slight edge to Cal. So to most fans, losing to Florida AT HOME, is at the LEAST, comparable to losing to Cal, on the road in 3 OT's.

OU did not belong in the game, and in hindsight, the human polls were proven correct, by virtue of OU's play. They were pathetic on offense, and their defense allowed well above their season average to an LSU offense that was, at best, mediocre. They were destroyed by Kansas State, and only put up 7 points on them, whereas CAL put up 28, IN Manhattan.

And the reason that the human polls got it right is because of the humans' ability to use judgment and recognize that the 2 TD win by USC over Michigan was not as close as the score indicated, as was the case with OU and LSU. Anyone who saw that game who is objective knows that OU was beaten a lot more soundly than by a TD. But the computers couldn't recognize that, no matter how well you programmed them. And that's why the human polls will always play an important part.

Some food for thought, since y'all seem to buy into this "Pac-10's shit" bullshit:

Michigan bitch slapped alot of good teams this year. They lost three games this year - two of them to Pac-10 teams, one of them who was 6th in the Pac-10. And Michigan is one hell of a team - they could've beaten either LSU or Oklahoma on any given day.

And that Cal team SC lost to in triple overtime? Yeah, they must suck considering they beat Va Tech. And that Washington St team that beat Texas? What was SC's score against the Cougs - like 55-14?

Is LSU worthy of the national title? You bet. (OK is not - they didn't even win their conference). But so is USC. It's too bad they can't play each other and prove what I think to be true - that SC woud beat LSU by at least 20.

"they didn't even win their conference" is garbage. they lost one game. to a good team. usc lost one game. to an average team. doesn't get much simpler than that.

No, but it gets more complicated.

First, USC lost to Cal in its first conference game in September. OU lost in the conference championship game, in December.

Now theoretically, a loss is a loss. But again, it comes back to the idea that all games are NOT equal. For example, a team with a worse win/loss record can still be conference champion than a team with a better record. Why? Because whereas the team with the 8-4 record is not nearly the equal of the 11-1 team, the fact that it went undefeated in conference play means that it is champion, in a division where there is no playoff. And that is because that one conference game means more than the OOC losses.

So that shows that there IS a difference between certain games, so the fact that OU lost a game that was deemed a championship game means more than a conference loss.

There is also the factor of timing of a loss. Now the BcS doesn't count a loss in December than it does a loss in September, but the question is, should it?

I say yes, and the reasoning is fairly simple. Teams are supposed to improve from one week to the next; a team that is playing poorly in September has the chance to pull it together and still have a good season. But a team that loses at the end of the season has less of an excuse, at least in my mind, and I know I am not alone. When I see a team like OU perform as poorly as they did, in their championship game, that makes a stronger impression on me than Michigan losing to Oregon. That's the aspect of judgment that computers lack; the ability to watch a team play and note whether it has made progress and is improving, or if it is falling apart like OU did the last 2 games of the season.

You may say that it shouldn't be that way, but I know that a lot of people think the way I do. And that includes sportswriters, fans and coaches.

Its a give and take situation. If you are in a conference that has a champ game, you do face losing another game, but if u win it significantly helps your chances in being in a much better bowl. However, I do admit in PAC 10 you play one less game but your SOS doesn't improve any more since you don't play the extra game. It also leaves no margin for error since if you lose a game then you pretty much doomed in the PAC 10 to advance as champion. Heck I wouldn't mind playing a championship game. Now, the question is - "Do you really want us to play one?" This will only hurt your argument. ;)

LSU "OWNED" OU "in the ownedest way possible" which is to say LSU defeated the number one ranked team in the BCS, therefore winning the national champisonship.

USC does not deserve the national title because, Duh, they were ranked #3. If USC were such a worthy team, then LSU should have had a chance to play them according to the tradition that the #2 and #1 teams will play for the national championship, in the national championship game. But, while USC, OU, and LSU are national championship material in each of their fans' eyes, the BCS saw only OU and LSU as the two teams which would play at the Sugar Bowl in New Orleans.
Cry all you want, but if USC were number one material, regardless of what happened in any of the many 1-A college football conferences, be it SEC, WAC, Big 12, if USC was destined to be number one, then they would have been declared number one on december 7th, when the BCS standings were declared. Dammit.

That is the way I see it. Go Privateers

Wow Ratfinger, you showed an incredible amount of disregard for anything previously posted in this comment.

You are dismissed and ignored.

Oh well, sorry about that. I thought this was the place were the comments went, not bitter arguments between sports fans who think they know more than each other. I'm sorry. I'll never post another comment again.

Apology accepted.

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